Unborn Babies Are Not Products But People. A 20-Something Christian Gaming Metalhead Conservative Debates A Pro-Choice Pro-Abortion Democrat of the Same Age

23 Aug

Abortion: You May Call It A Choice, But It's Still Murder

You can all abortion whatever you want to call it. The act is murdering an individual. Factually.

People are NOT “products” and neither is a fetus. While that may sound like common sense, this absurb stance on another soon-to-be-son or daughter was the counter-argument proposed to my Pro-Life stance by a fellow friend in an extensive debate I had with him on the topic of abortion and life.

One one side (mine), you have someone who believes that all-life is precious, even the tiny innocent human to be born as the result of rape or incest. On the other side (my friend) is the belief that an unborn person is a “product”, and can thus be disposed of at the whims of their mother. Two competing views.

In my mind, while the mother’s life is of the utmost importance, just as important is the PERSON she is carrying inside her. As soon as conception has been made and a human being, your son or daughter, is growing inside you, you forfeit the right of considering your body your own. Anything and everything you do effects your little one, and if they die inside you, YOU DIE. If you are murdered, they are murdered. It is not one murder, it is considered TWO.

This, as everyone knows, is the natural cause and effect of sexual intercourse and unprotected sex. Regardless of the circumstances, that person growing inside you is an innocent boy or girl who deserves their own shot at life. That is my stance as a Christian, Conservative and Republican, and always has been.

This topic was the debate subject I had when my dear childhood, lifelong, liberal Democrat friend called Paul Ryan a “prized asshole” (a phrase I would never use for anyone, I should add. I don’t use that kind of obscene language) over Republican Presidential Nominee Mitt Romney’s Vice Presidential choice’s refusal to support abortion even in the case of rape or incest.

Here is our conversation in full, followed by more observations by me at the end. This will give you a clear definition on where I stand as far as abortion is concerned.

Paul Ryan Cross

A fantastic picture of our next Vice President of the United States.

Democrat: What a prized asshole. “Paul Ryan Refuses To Say Abortions Should Be Available To Women Who Are Raped” – link.

Me: Just saw an interview with a woman born of a rape. She values her life just as much as you value yours.

Democrat: That’s cool. I once took a psychology class and in the class was a girl who was the product of rape. She said she would have preferred that her mother never had her because she always saw the pain in her mom’s eyes when she looked at her. Even after her mother had more children from a loving relationship, her mom always had a different look and treated her differently then she did her siblings. She said that her mom had a hard time raising her and it was an intense emotional struggle for her mother.

I’m also sure that you’re familiar with the 13th amendment, right? You know what it means and what it stands for. A woman is raped and then a product is made. The mother is then a host for that product… involuntarily.

The product then feeds off of and grows within the mother… without her initial consent. It’s then brought to term and a laborious and painful birth ensures. It was never the intent of the mother to go through with this, the product and constant reminder of a time in which something happened to her that took away her freedoms and it continues for 9 months.

Beautiful Pregnant Woman Belly Art of Baby Inside Belly

No sense to be so overjoyed. It’s just another product growing inside you, right?

Then come the emotional bondage of give it away to a system of orphanages and foster homes that is broken and underfunded to which the kid has little chance at a normal life or whether to keep it and have the woman remain a slave to the horrendous event and the kid to have “special” treatment as in the case of the student I shared a classroom with.

Taking away the right of a woman to choose her own, something that you believe was imbued to you by a creator (the right to choose) and something that is reinforced by our government (the pursuit of life, liberty and property/happiness), is committing her to slavery/indentured servitude.

Not you or I or anybody in the Whitehouse has the right to say what a woman can or cannot do when it comes to this, for it would be unconstitutional.

Me: Actually it says all have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Once another human being is growing inside you, your body is not your own. Anything and everything you do effects that life, which is why there are warning labels in places that serve alcohol.

Romney Ryan Oppose Abortion Are Both Pro-Life Banner

Both Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan have pro-life records, though one has flipflopped on the issue.

As Ron Paul said, you treat pregnant women as two people, not one person. You may forfeit a life as a “product”, which speaks volumes, but many people see it differently. And that life has every right to be given a chance at life despite the circumstances of its birth. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Democrat: Actually, if you look up the history of the phrase, you’ll find that it was intended to mean property and did say it but was changed to say the latter.

I didn’t forfeit anything. A child is a product. Life is a product. Humanity is a product. One of the definitions of the word is “1. Something produced by human or mechanical effort or by a natural process.”

Once a child that was made from such a despicable act of confinement is made, it is an extension or the original act and it’s up to the mother to make the choice, for she is the one that has to live with either outcome and if that’s the case then she has the chance to atone for her actions, right? She’ll meet her maker in the end. Correct? Then we don’t get to decide for her in this life; only she can do that.

Me: Well I’m just glad I don’t have that twisted outlook on life. You should read this book called “A Stolen Life” by Jaycee Dugard.

You would’ve taken her greatest gifts away from her, on account of them being rape induced. Thankfully she held a different view, and sees their life’s as gifts, angels to brighten her day through the chaos and pain she had to endure. Innocent lives.

Here is an extensive interview with Jaycee Dugard.

Democrat: I’m sorry that you think my view on life is twisted just because it doesn’t conform with yours. I would have used the word different because that’s all that it is.

Some Other Dude: You know, mandatory birth control would make this a moot issue. :o)

Me: It’s not because it doesn’t conform, it’s because it values death over life. Innocent life. I should’ve tacked an “with all due respect” onto the front. And that is why this issue will never be “resolved”. I can’t see how anyone can kill an innocent being no matter the circumstances, while you don’t even see it as a being. So there’s no compromising on this front, the gap between views is a gulf as wide as the ocean. Just as a lot of views between Conservatives and Liberals shake out to be.

Democrat: I don’t value death over life. I’m not saying that there aren’t any consequences. I’m just saying that this isn’t for anyone but the woman to decide.

Me: But that means you are giving the infant no choice in the matter. How is that fair? Or moral? That’s how you are choosing death over life. The mother’s life is important, of course, but just as important is the human she is carrying. I don’t see how in the world anyone can undervalue that, considering you, me and everyone that walks this earth was once one of these “products” ourselves.

Think about it logically, if a woman were to take her infant and throw it out the window, that’d be a crime, a disgrace, and immoral. But to kill it, is not immoral? It’s perfectly fine. It’s her choice if he or she lives or dies?

Ron Paul discussing abortion, and how pregnant woman are considered TWO PEOPLE not ONE. The health of the child is just as important as the mother.

Democrat: It’s still not up for you, me or any government to decide.

Me: Actually yes it is, when a child is in danger others step in to save that child, be it the police or government or a concerned citizen who reports abuse. Because that child has rights, just like you and I do, and deserves their shot at pursuing happiness. Parents have authority over the child, but not authority to end the child’s life or cause excessive harm or endangerment to him or her.

—– End Conversation

Pro Life Beats Pro Choice 2011 Gallup Poll (2012 Today)

Pro Life has defeated Pro Choice on abortion in 2011 and 2012 as Pro-Life continues to grow.

I went on to make a few observations regarding abortion and the state of its support, or lack thereof, in a few other Facebook posts.

“Although Pro-Choice Democrats still outnumber Pro-Life Democrats, the percentage of Pro-Choice Democrats has dropped ten points in the last year, from 68% to 58%. Pro-Life Democrats currently make up 34% of the Party, which is a seven point increase over the same time period.

The upward Pro-Life trend in the country is not limited to older adults. A 2010 Gallup poll illustrates that Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-nine have been moving in the pro-life direction. In 2003, 40% of that age group considered themselves pro-life. By 2010, that percentage had increased seven points to 47%.” – – Source

The Democrats do understand that 51% of the country now considers themselves pro-life right? Last time I checked, above 50% is considered a majority. Meanwhile those who identify themselves as “Pro-Choice” is at its lowest point ever, 41%. The DNC (Democratic National Convention, where Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden will officially be nominated for the 2012 Democrat Party Ticket as the incumbents) will feature the president of Planned Parenthood speaking at their convention.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think most people see that organization like they perceive Code Pink; radical. As the series of recent stings has proven, where undercover agents revealed them promoting (or failing to report) child rape and child prostitution, and stings revealing Planned Parenthood advisers advising clients that aborting their unborn baby’s based on their kids gender was acceptable and perfectly legal… I think their reputation has been quite tarnished in recent times, wouldn’t you agree? Well We’ll see if hosting the President of Planned Parenthood helps the case for the Democratic Party and Barack Obama, but I have my doubts.

Especially considering that more and more people are coming to the conclusion that abortion is abhorrent and immoral than ever before. After decades of Pro Choice dominance, people are CHOOSING LIFE over death this time, and I expect that Pro Life support will only grow in the future, not shrink. And that includes young people like myself.

Thanks for reading. Sound off on whether you agree or disagree in the comments below.

Keep it civil, I police all comments and will delete your’s if I feel it is unworthy of being posted, at my own discretion. This is NOT youtube or Yahoo or Facebook and I’m determined to keep the comments section from becoming that way.


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